Re: Reli Solar Contractors List
Excellent, Sail. PLEASE send your post or something like it to the LISIEA Associates list so they can respond on the forum or perhaps direct to Steering via info@liseia.org? A number of Associates have applied or plan to apply to become members.
Associates and new folks are obviously the ones currently having problems getting on the RELI list. Some including John Totten, who have already applied for membership have already posted on the new forum about RELI issues. He would have sent it to the members list or steering to make people aware, but he's not on the members list and Associates is outbound only - a catch 22. You may see complaints on the forums, but many associates are new to that. You get less negative feedback from people who have already gotten through the RELI process because until that happens they don't have a way to post about the problems, once done they'd rather not think about it ever again.
I have a new, very specific plan to deal with some of the problems being discussed, most of which we can do in house, on our own at zero cost and with minimal effort. It is constructive and does not hurt RELI in any way, encouraging growth, so long as both groups work together.
It has both long and short term components based on our current level of funding (zero) and our resources (growing fast, but currently overworked & maxed out as Sail noted). It requires us to rethink our current member levels and process, which has them either as an associate with little access to discussions or a full blown voting member, with nothing in between. And with only 27 full members, that limits our resources currently as most are associates and not in on current discussions & topics.
As far as your question how do we get people to look at the LISEIA List? We create a solar public benefit resource that the website is the repository for. We make the website and our organization the single best source for consumers, politicians, educators, local and state government, architects, builders, consultants to go to first, for answers, information and guidance on solar industry issues and to tap the solar brain trust that we have in house. And guess what, the contractors and energy professionals who built the resource and who meet LISEIA's very high standards, will find that phone calls & Emails start going to the professionals on our list when they want a system.
Then I have a forums suggestion appended below that might help with Sails point about mixing multiple RELI issues on the forum and how to separate them out to be dealt with individually. Everyone not interested skip that part of the Email please!
Yes, we should have high standards. If we can't vet our own members now? Yes, that is a problem. But RELI has become perhaps unwittingly and partly LISEIA's own fault, a gatekeeper that slows our growth, limits our active membership to those who have 'jumped through RELI's hoops' as Sail put it. On the forums even Sail I think posted that they have overstepped. RELI is now setting the requirements for what it means to be a solar contractor on Long Island in many ways, rather than the industry setting standards. Personally I believe the industry is better situated to set safety and quality standards, we certainly interact with the public more on solar than any other entity on Long Island.
After reading Nick, Greg and one other person on RELI's significant contributions to the industry and LISEIA over the years, which were some of the only positive comments from the bulk of people currently talking, calling or Emailing me? Maybe where I view RELI as currently an entity not focused enough on growing the solar industry and helping consumers find contractors in an equitable manner, LIPA solar & policy needs, actually hurting us more than helping? Perhaps the problems I see are largely just structural and a lack of communication or understanding, as RELI & LISEIA grew and our two groups developed into larger organizations with differing purposes at times, both with limited human resources and inadequate computer systems and in LISEIA's case no funding.
So I apologize for my hostile tone before. I'll assume RELI is doing its best and is 100% well intentioned from this point on. But we do have to deal with perceived negative impacts reported by many member and associates in LISEIA and if real, decide both what we want to do and what we can do.
THE NINE POINT PLAN
1. Announcements & Emergencies Email List.
a.Create an outbound only Email list.
This is for both LISEIA associates and members. Used for outbound only notices & announcements from officers, steering, committee chairs, etc. People that want to receive announcements from LISEIA without getting their Email boxes flooded with discussions can sign up just for this. And Emails from this list for something like "LIPA is dropping rebates in 3 hours, get your apps in" would not be lost in the clutter.
b. Use this to encourage use of LISEIA forums for open discussion amongst guests, LISEIA Associates and members.
2. LISEIA Associates & Member Upgrade Help.
A better seat at the table & assistance with RELI. More information, tools and options to get involved and contribute, opportunities to volunteer and take part.
a. Change the MIEM's Associate's Email list to be one that they can use to converse and interact.
b. Give LISEIA members the option to be on that interactive list as well, so they can assist and mentor new members and help them. Currently the Associates only get the benefit of useful announcements we sent to their outbound only list, they are often in the dark about critical things that may affect them.
c. If a member sees something important posted on the associate's list, he can forward that info to the rest of the members or to Steering, etc.
d. Alternatively the forums can help to accomplish much of this also.
e. Create a logo for LISEIA Associates.
3. Add RELI Ombudsman.
a. One or more LISIEA volunteers who will serve on the membership committee under the direction of its chair.
b. These will intercede with RELI on behalf of associates who are having difficulty getting on the RELI list for whatever reason.
c. These will intercede with RELI on behalf of members who are having other problems with RELI, including getting their entries on the RELI site updated or anything else.
d. Ombudsman will poll the membership and associates three times a year asking for reports of any problems with RELI.
e. The membership chair will report to Steering on RELI issues periodically based on the ombudsman and membership feedback, so that LISEIA will have an accurate evaluation as to whether or not LISEIA Associates and member's needs are being addressed fairly and in a timely manner by RELI. Also if we need to in any way, better prepare our members to successfully work with RELI.
f. If serious problems are not getting resolved or minor ones our constant, our chairman will be in an informed position to contact RELI at the highest levels and request help in a constructive manner.
4. Create "LISEIA Entry Level Member" and "LISEIA Entry Level Contractor Member" levels.
Requirements & Benefits.
a. Attend 2 general membership meetings. This reduces the current minimum of 8 months to get to 4 meetings which often turns into a year, down to 2 months. After this, they must attend a minimum of 2 meetings per year to maintain entry level membership.
b. Sign the LISEIA ethics document.
c. Pay their NYSEIA membership (appropriate to the type of member they are, individual, contractor company, NFP, etc.).
d. Sign a statement something to the effect of "I certify that I will maintain all required certifications, licenses and insurance required for any work or services I provide in the Long Island area as a LISEIA member". While we not request proof any any certifications to be submitted at this time, if a report is received that someone is operating without proper licensing or certifications, LISEIA has the right to request proof from the member and to suspend their membership if such proof is not provided in a timely fashion.
e. Apply online to MIEMs for this level of membership and enter your personal or company information.
f. Once these requirements are met, they may:
-Be placed on the MIEM's members list.
-Hold positions in LISEIA including webmaster, serve on committees.
-Take part in members' only special meetings (if any).
-Attend Steering committee meetings as an observer only (if those are ever opened up for member observers).
-Have access to any 'members only' portions of the LISEIA website, lists and activities.
-Other benefits if any, to be determined in the future.
g. They cannot:
-Vote in Steering Elections, Membership Referendums or at General Membership Meetings.
-Serve as the chair of a committee.
-Be elected to the Steering Committee.
-Other restrictions if any, to be determined through discussion.
h. Create a logo for these member types.
5. Create "LISEIA Certified Energy Professional Member" and "LISEIA Certified Energy Professional Contractor Member" levels.
a. Have attended 4 membership meetings and maintain 75% attendance levels per year.
b. Met the requirements of an RELI Pre-Screened Contractor or equivalent.
c. If not a Contractor, met requirements appropriate to their profession. Specifics to be determined by Steering. Possible examples include a Lawyer, Accountant, Financial Consultant, Equipment Vendor or Distributor, Energy Consultant, Electrician, Electrical Inspector, etc.
d. Create a logo for the member types.
e. These can:
-Vote in Steering Elections, Membership Referendums or at General Membership Meetings.
-Serve as the chair of a committee.
-Be elected to the Steering Committee.
-Other benefits if any, including future LISEIA credit cards, insurance,
*Note that these should be discussed with our counsel and are only proposed working titles.
6. Modify the LISEIA List.
a. Similar to the way LISEIA has pre-screened and pending contractors, we can set up our list to order by Entry Level vs. Certified Energy Professionals. Within each area, continue to have the default sort order be random.
7. Long Term Phased Changes.
a. Eventually modify the LISEIA list to have contractor information similar to what is on RELI, where Steering agrees it is relevant and appropriate. Add sorting options that can include one or more parameters.
b. Determine what if any aspects of the RELI pending and pre-screened required data elements or procedures are inappropriate, excessive or not relevant, or which discourage fair competition in the marketplace by qualified contractors. Ask our executives to meet with RELI to politely request changes as appropriate. See 5. b. above.
c. Determine what elements of member and contractor data we deem relevant that should be required for LISEIA membership, whether it is on the RELI list or not. Discuss with membership how to create our own criteria list, manage submissions to maintain our own vetting system, evaluate the cost and human resources needed to consider this. See 5. b. & 5. c. above. Long term this could potentially eliminate the need for LISEIA to have RELI vet its contractor members and may increase LISEIA non-contractor members participation as they see the value to being on the LISEIA list, where RELI does not have that function in its solar area currently.
d. Request that RELI modify its list based on feed back from members.
e. Request that RELI add LISEIA Certified Energy Professional Contractor Member Y/N and LISEIA Entry Level Contractor Member Y'/N to their contractor lists and that this be one of the parameters they can search by.
f. Continue to build the LISEIA Website into a full fledged solar and alternative energy resource through member input, submissions of content and suggestions.
g. Consider creating a Members Only section of the forums that would be limited to Entry Level and Certified Energy Professional members only.
h. Consider merging MIEM's into the main website for more seamless functionality and to support administration of private forum sections and other activities, without duplicate effort on what is current two separate physical sites. Would require technical research into Moonfruit website software capabilities and limitations including Email. But is likely quite possible.
i. Investigate LIPA funding for LISEIA efforts including website administration, consumer services and industry support.
j. LISEIA is already helping with eduction in related energy areas including wind energy and vegetative roofing, etc. Potentially add additional membership and member specialties as appropriate over time.
k. Work on branding and identity, licensing and other fund raising mechanisms related to LISEIA which can serve the industry and create awareness amongst consumers that LISEIA represents the contractors and solar energy professionals working locally who are held to a higher standard, that we work with LIPA on their behalf and that we promote safe, sensible solar and renewable energy implementations.
l. Public education programs. Some free, some paid, to raise awareness and raise money for LISEIA efforts. We can tap the NYSEIA expertise possibly for curriculum, we already have educators in house in LISEIA who could teach some of these, making some money for themselves at a discounted rate and the profit going into LISEIA or NYSEIA to fund other efforts.
8. Work with LIPA on an Eligible Installer program. Long term goal.
a. LISEIA should be the driving force behind this, setting and determining standards and how it can be done without preventing start up or qualified contractors from participating. Nor should it prevent individuals from being able to perform self installations. The idea is similar to NYSERDA's, but would hopefully be simpler, rational and apply to a company level, not to an individual.
b. To be in this program you should at a minimum meet the requirements of a LISEIA Entry Level Contractor.
c. LIPA should only accept applications for net metered systems from those in this program.
9. LIPA funding & other.
a. It seems logical that LIPA would fund some of this as it funds other organizations.
b. We would be providing tremendous benefit to LIPA and consumers, giving consumers a level of protection they do not currently enjoy while continuing to provide contractors with educational resources and access to LIPA procedures (we are currently the only entity with all of LIPA's pre-screening and rebate processing procedures online and updated regularly, not even LIPA has that).
Sail's point on multiple issues for the RELI issues & forums?
There are 6 basic issues being mixed together, you just have not seen them all on the members list fully yet and the Associates in many cases have been going on about these offline, both members, associates and potential new member guests are starting to post on the forums though.
If you would like them separated on the forums too, You (or I can do it for you) create a Subject section dedicated to RELI. Sail or anyone can add topics to cover each issue separately. Perhaps as below, I noted some of the typical discussions associates and members have had mainly privately until recently, since associates don't have an Email list to converse or share info with us on:
1. RELI Certification/Licensing of Installers as Professionals.
Their new "Professional Member" three metal tiered program, appears to give consumers the belief that these contractors are somehow superior to others as RELI has identified them on their website and through a special restricted logo as "Professionals". Meanwhile all it means is that someone gave RELI money. Writing a check to any organization, should not on its own give you additional standing with the implication that you are a credentialed Professional. Since they do this without any testing, it appears to be a fund raising mechanism that many mistake for professional certification or licensing. It also implies that virtually none of the LISEIA contractors are professionals, as few of us have chosen to enter that program.
2. RELI is not a LISEIA Member
RELI has not opted to join LISEIA except as an Associate. They have not signed the ethics document or applied for full membership under the NFP option. Yet many feel that some give RELI the same perks, information and influence as a full member in terms of involvement and influence on LISEIA activities, access to privileged information, etc. that we deny to Associates even those who have applied for membership but have to wait 8 months for 4 meetings or meet the RELI requirements, etc. While keeping other LISEIA Associates from having that same privileged member information or access to it, including the private members list. Some have suggested that RELI simply become a LISEIA member and follow the same rules and be then held to the same ethical standards as other members.
3. RELI List Format & Content.
Perceived negative effects or unfairness. Ex: default list order is not random as LISEIA's is. Focuses on # of installations, does not have additional content that would mitigate that effect and offer consumer choices. Could add more order by parameter options such as total watts installed, distance from customer location, LISEIA Member Y/N, LISEIA Associate Y/N where you could order by say LISEIA Member Contractors + distance from my house). If they really want to emphasize NABCEP, fine, then at least order within that randomly.
4. RELI List Updates.
Difficulty in getting on their list in the first place. Also having them update information such as additional installs or being eligible to work in a new county or town, etc. in a timely and accurate manner. Does all the information they require actually make sense? For example they require you to submit phone numbers for customer references, but refuse to call them as they only check references by Email, which does not work when your most recent references don't have Email. It appears that barriers to entry are created without an actual reason to do so. Delays in being moved from pending to pre-screened in a timely fashion.
5. RELI Solar Tour restrictions.
Feelings that LIPA is funding a solar tour that does not represent the breadth of the LI solar companies or the majority of LISEIA members.You already have this on the agenda for the next meeting, but perceived unfairness by some that this is no longer a solar tour (must have something else now to qualify first, such as geothermal or LEED or other efficiency items before the solar) so it benefits people that do things besides solar and cuts out solar specialists and most of the little guys. And they did not guarantee each contractor even one home even if they apply. It isn't our tour, true, but the funding comes from our pockets as ratepayers, money that could be funding LISEIA.
6. RELI Funding.
RELI funded with LISEIA member dollars that comes out of our pockets as LIPA ratepayers for "Solar Pioneer policy & consulting" assuming Kevin's reports and Comptroller's document are accurate. Are they representing consumer and industry interests including LISEIA? Is LISEIA membership restricted due to RELI policy and issues above. RELI's problems with lack of staff, computer and software list problems and procedures, how do these impact LISEIA and its members. Should we fight for a piece of the LIPA funding pie for LISEIA, for someday our own tour, our own list, other solar related actvities to benefit the industry and consumers, etc.